5th Position
Since we're talking about branching away from C Major, let's also discuss moving away from open position. We've already touched on this with some of our barre chords, but we haven't tried to learn scales or some more intricate chord voicings.
5th position is great position to learn after open position for several reasons:
- Most strings are tuned to P4's, which means the 5th fret is the same note as the next-highest open string and follows the same whole-half pattern.
- 5th Position has no overlap with open position, but there are no notes in between the two positions either. It maximizes the power of position-shifting without decoupling from the familiarity of open position.
- For both C Major and G Major keys, 5th position uses a note on the index finger (5th fret) for every string, making it fairly easy to learn.
Contents
Why Use Other Positions?
We have already touched upon the concept of position and using it intelligently in the position lesson from a ways back. Please review before continuing - this expounds upon those details.
Extending the Guitar's Range
Open position has a nice +2 octave range (excluding harmonics); however, there's an additional octave and a half available as we move up the fretboard. On a 24 fret guitar, frets 5-24 contain notes on the high E string that are inaccessible in open position. That's 20 notes!
Looking at C Major, we have 17 notes in open position, but an additional 12 notes that cannot be played in open position.
E-------------------------------------------0--1--3--5--7--8--10-12-13-15-17-19-20-22-24- B----------------------------------0--1--3----------------------------------------------- G----------------------------0--2-------------------------------------------------------- D-------------------0--2--3-------------------------------------------------------------- A----------0--2--3----------------------------------------------------------------------- E-0--1--3-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 <-------------------open pos.--------------------> <--------------other pos.---------->
Rather than trying to play a scale constantly shifting position on one string as shown above, it makes more sense to break it up over several position shifts:
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------17-19-20-/22-b24- B----------------------------------------------------------------17-18-20------------------ G----------------------------------------------10-12-14-16-17-19--------------------------- D----------------------------5--7--9--10-12-14--------------------------------------------- A----------0--2--3--5--7--8---------------------------------------------------------------- E-0--1--3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- open 5th 10th 16th 17th 20th
Alternate Chord Voicings
Different positions necessarily use different fingerings and thus voicings for the same chords. This can enhance voice leading or slightly change the flavor of each chord. Or it may simply make it easier to play, in-and-of-itself or in sequence with other chords.
C C C C C C E--0---3---8---8---12--12-- B--1---5---5---8---13--13-- G--0---5---5---9---12--12-- D--2---5---5---10--10--14-- A--3---3---7---10------15-- E----------8---8----------- 0 3 5 8 10 12
Different Relationships with Open Strings
When we change positions, we get different intervals available for our fretted notes vs. the same string played open. This can make for some interesting hammer-on or pull-offs, as well as chord voicings. Some chord voicings are only possible using open strings outside of open position.
--0-h5-h7----0-h9-h12--
C#m7 E--0----- B--0----- G--6----- D--6----- A--4----- E--------
Making Runs/Arpeggios Easier
As discussed in a very early lesson, the guitar's octaves are laid out basically diagonally on the fretboard, making 2-3 position shifts for each octave allow us to simply repeat the same fingering pattern for multiple octaves. This can help make arpeggios or similar melodic or scale runs eaisier to visualize and execute.
Also, as we saw in the 1st string lesson, we can easily ascend or descend a scale in groups of three by shifting positions on a single string, rather than jump back and forth between pairs of strings.
Some runs are simply way eaiser to perform by using positional shifts. Consider this run that is a simple descending scale but adds 5th intervals above.
with Shifting E-------20-------19-------17-------15----- B-20\18----18\17----17\15----15\13----13-- i i r i i r i i r i i r i
without Shifting E-------20-------19-------17-------------- B-20-18----18-17----17-------------20----- G----------------------19----19-17----17-- p m p m i r i r i r i p i
Different Scale/Melody Fingerings
Sometimes changing positions makes you rethink how you look at a melody or scale and forces you to try new things. When the notes that you commonly hit with your index finger are now on your ring finger, your muscle memory will fail you. This makes for a great way to break out of a rut or develop new licks.
D--6h7p6---4-- vs. D--6h7p6------ A--------7---- A--------7-9-- 4th pos. 6th pos.
Natural Harmonics
Natural harmonics are fixed to certain places on the fretboard. You will have to change positions if you want to access them. The 2nd through 5th frets contain lots of harmonics. The 7th/19th fret and 12th fret harmonics can only be accessed at those locations.
Stretches and Compact Chords
The higher up the fretboard you go, the smaller the frets. This makes stretches eaiser. It can make certain chord shapes playable/eaisier. Conversely, chords that use compact finger groupings may be more difficult to play on smaller frets. Shifting position towards the nut can help ease their fingering.
Fadd9 F half-dim7 E--1------8-------13-- E--------------- B--1------10------13-- B--21------9---- G--2------12------14-- G--20------8---- D--5------10------17-- D--21------9---- A--3------8-------15-- A--20------8---- E--1--------------13-- E--------------- smaller stretch less bunched
C and G Major Scales in 5th Position
Here are the C Major and G Major scales in 5th position, first as tab then scale maps.
C Major E-------------------------------------5--7--8--7--5------------------------------------------------ B----------------------------5--6--8-----------------8--6--5---------------------------------------- G----------------------5--7-----------------------------------7--5---------------------------------- D-------------5--7--9-----------------------------------------------9--7--5------------------------- A----5--7--8-----------------------------------------------------------------8--7--5---------------- E-8-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------8--7--5--7--8- p i r p i m/r p i r i m p i r p r i p m i r i p m/r i p r i p r i r p C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C B A G F E D C B A G F E D C B A B C
G Major E--------------------------5--7--8--7--5----------------------------------------------- B-----------------5--7--8-----------------8--7--5-------------------------------------- G-----------5--7-----------------------------------7--5-------------------------------- D--5--7--9-----------------------------------------------9--7--5----------------------- A-----------------------------------------------------------------9--7--5-------------- E--------------------------------------------------------------------------8--7--5-\3-- i m p i r i r p i r p r i p r i r i p m i p m i p r i i G A B C D E F G A B C B A G F E D C B A G F E D C B A G
| C Major | G Major |
|---|---|
|o|-|o|x|-| |o|o|-|o|-| |x|-|o|-|-| |o|-|o|-|o| |o|-|o|o|-| |o|-|o|x|-| 5 |
|o|-|o|o|-| |o|-|o|x|-| |o|-|o|-|-| |x|-|o|-|o| |o|-|o|-|o| |o|-|o|x|-| 5 |
Some people find those 9th fret stretches difficult. Notice for C Major, you can use the middle finger to fret the 7th fret, making it easier for the pinky to reach the 9th fret. Since this is the only stretch in C Major and we otherwise use the ring finger on the 7th fret, it may be simpler to use the ring finger. For G Major; however, we encounter numerous 5-7-9 or whole-whole patterns. I find it is easier to always use the middle finger for the 7th fret on these strings.
Some abandon the issue altogether and temporarily move to 4th position as follows:
C Major E-------------------------------------5--7--8-- B---------------------------/5--6--8----------- G------------------\4--5--7-------------------- D-------------5--7----------------------------- A----5--7--8----------------------------------- E-8-------------------------------------------- p i r p i r i m p i m p i r p C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
Personally, I find it's a bit weak to shift positions on just 1 string to avoid a whole-whole stretch, and it causes more trouble than it's worth. Consider ascending in groups of 3:
B----------------------------------5-----5--6- G----------------5-----5--7--5--7-----7------- D-5--7--9--7--9-----9------------------------- i m p m p i p i r i r i r i m
B---------------------------------/5-----5--6- G------\4-----4--5--4--5--7--5--7-----7------- D-5--7-----7---------------------------------- i r i p i m i m p m p i r i m
In the second example, it's a bit easier to get lost as that 1 fret shift now changes which fingers you use for what frets, not just on the G string, but also the neighboring strings. The D and G string 7th frets are sometimes fingered with the ring finger, sometimes with the pinky, depending on where you are in the lick. If you try to shift every time you touch the G string, you end up shifting too much for melodies that quickly alternate between D and G or G and B strings.
Similarity to Open Position
Since the 5th fret is a P4 higher than the open strings and most strings are tuned to P4's, most of the notes and whole-half patterns from open position are simply moved down a string. Although we finger them differently since we can no longer use open strings, it should be somewhat easy to learn 5th position if we reference open position.
The tab below shows the same notes for open position and 5th position being played at the same time. It's difficult to impossible to actually play them at the same time - the point is to notice the similarity between the two positions. Other than the slight difference between 1 note on the G and B strings, each string has the same whole-half pattern.
w h w w h w w w h w w h w E-----------------------------------0--1--3------- B--------------------------0--1--3--5--6--8------- G--------------------0--2-----5--7---------------- D-----------0--2--3--5--7--9---------------------- A--0--2--3--5--7--8------------------------------- E--5--7--8----------------------------------------
Of course, the fingering is completely different, since we are no longer using open strings, and we have to use our pinky finger more. Focus on the shapes more than the fingering. Its important to identify the shape patterns - fingering patterns will eventually become more and more natural. But the layout of the note patterns allows us to fully understand the instrument and prevent us from getting lost.
Chords and Position
I feel like chords should never be strictly tied to position. You will end up using awkward/difficult fingerings, smaller voicings (3 string chords), or even incomplete chords (missing one of the component notes). That said, you shouldn't always gravitate towards open position if you need to play chords. And you probably want to avoid using the same barre chord shape for 2 sequential chords if they are far apart on the fretboard - the huge shift will be quite noticeable and off-putting. Shifting position 1-3 frets up or down should be quite enough to voice most chords nicely.
| Strict Pos... Weak Voicing |
Same Shape... Large Shift |
Great | Also Good |
|---|---|---|---|
V I E--7---5-- B--5---5-- G------6-- D--6---7-- A--7---7-- E------5-- |
V I E--12--5-- B--12--5-- G--13--6-- D--14--7-- A--14--7-- E--12--5-- |
V I E--4---5-- B--5---5-- G--4---6-- D--6---7-- A--7---7-- E------5-- |
V I E--7---5-- B--9---5-- G--9---6-- D--9---7-- A--7---7-- E------5-- |
Arpeggios
Arpeggios on the other hand should be entirely possible to play through all the notes inside the chord without changing positions. This is actually an excellent exercise to familiarize yourself with the different intervals that compose the chords and how they lay out on the fretboard.
Am Bdim C Dm E-------------5-8---------------7---------------8---------------5- B-----------5-----------------6-------------5-8---------------6--- G---------5-----------------7-------------5-----------------7----- D-------7-----------------9-------------5-----------------7------- A-----7---------------5-8-------------7---------------5-8--------- E-5-8---------------7---------------8---------------5-------------
Homework
- Work through the above examples of why to use different positions. Try to come up with your own examples.
- Practice C Major and G Major in 5th position. Be sure to identify the root notes.
- Practice A Minor and E Minor in 5th position. Be sure to identify the root notes.
- Practice switching position for various chords, following the guidelines above.
- Play through some of our common progressions in C Major and G Major without using open position chords.
- Practice the arpeggios above.
- Play all of the diatonic C Major and G Major chords in 5th position as arpeggios, taking care to identify the notes for the chords.
- Try to start learning all the notes for 5th position. We already hit these when we learned each string, but you probably forgot them, as we haven't really used them. Start trying to relearn them. It's not important to memorize every note at this point, but you should at least know the location of the C's and G's, and be able to see how 5th position relates to open position.